A Conversation with: Michael Beck
This episode features a conversation with Michael Beck. Michael Beck is an executive coach, business strategist, and author of the highly rated leadership book, “Eliciting Excellence”. He is passionate about helping leaders become more effective and companies achieve greater success. Over his 20+ years as an executive coach, he has helped leaders improve their interpersonal skills, sharpen their strategic thinking, and make smarter decisions. Michael works with senior executives throughout the U.S.
Michael’s Contact Information: mbeck@elicitingexcellence.com| 503-928-7645 | www.ElicitingExcellence.com
“People talk about the importance of culture. And I’ve made the observation that some people or many people think that culture are the values and the behaviors the organization aspires to. But that’s not true. Culture are the values and behaviors the company tolerates. And when the leaders tolerate bad behavior, that becomes the culture”
Transcript:
Suzanne Hanifin: Well, hi, this is Suzanne Hanifin with Acumen Executive Search, and I am delighted to have Michael Beck, an executive strategist, join us for this podcast where we're going to learn all about leadership and his perspectives. So, welcome, Michael.
Michael Beck: Thank you so much for having me, Suzanne. I'm looking forward to this. I've been doing leadership development, executive coaching, and strategy for over 20 years, and I’ve got all sorts of stories and insights I’d love to share.
Suzanne Hanifin: Perfect. Well, you kind of took a little bit of my introduction, but I’m going to repeat it. As I said, Michael is an executive strategist, and he really works from that strategy point with the leadership team all the way through execution. He does this by building and developing senior leaders, and he truly cares about moving not only the business forward but also the conversation forward and working towards those strategic goals. So, Michael, is there anything else you’d like to add?
Michael Beck: Well, I've got tons that I’d like to add, but just one more perspective to add to what you just said—I’m happy to share the background for this. At one point in my career, I decided I wanted to help leaders treat people better. I love the idea of "hiring for good," because if I help leaders do better, they treat their people better, and when they treat their people better, it just cascades.
Suzanne Hanifin: ..and makes my job easier. Absolutely. But, you know, it all starts, like you said it all starts with you and something that changed or influenced you. We always call this the formative leadership experiences, whether it was a mentor or a situation. So, let's talk about that. What have been those formative leadership experiences?
Michael Beck: Unfortunately, I would have to say that my formative experiences were learning what not to do. I alluded to working for poor leaders, and I’m happy to share some stories if you like.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Beck: So, one example—I was the Assistant Treasurer of a large company, a $300 million firm, and worked there for several years and did a good job. One day, my boss, the Treasurer, came to me and said, "You need to be working nights and weekends." I said, "Well, why? I’m doing good work. The quality is good, and I’m getting all my work done." At the time, I was newly married. I said, "I’m not going to do that." He said, "Well, you don’t have a future with this company." He didn’t fire me on the spot, but he invited me to leave, which I did. As it turns out, a couple of years later, he died of a heart attack. It was an absurd thing for a leader to say.
Here's another example—I was the VP of Finance for a construction firm. They were a regional general contractor. Over the few years I was with them, I helped them double their revenue. I had been hired by the owner of the company, and then he decided to sell the company to one of the employees. This new leader just didn’t like me. He would say, "You don’t belong here. You didn’t grow up in the industry." I said, "But look at what I’ve done for the company." So one day, he came to me and said, "We’re going to bid on this contract. Read through it and tell me what you think." It was a project up in the mountains with a stream around it, and I said, "The only thing that concerns me is it says we have to take the property 'as is.'" He said, "That just proves my point. That’s a standard clause. You don’t know what you’re talking about," and he fired me on the spot. As it turned out, that clause in the contract not only bankrupted the company but put them out of business. So what kind of leaders are these? It’s not only that.
Even another poor leader I worked for—a simple example that spills into the strategy arena—at the end of the year, he would call the key folks into the conference room and say, "We had a great year. I really appreciate everyone’s hard work. Next year, I’d like to double sales. Go out there and make it happen." ..its like what? It highlighted how a goal is not a strategy and a goal is not motivating. I could tell you more stories about him, but these are just simple examples of what poor leaders can do and how they can mistreat people. From that, I learned what not to do, and it was also the impetus for me. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of folks mimic the behavior of the leaders that they have and sometimes that is for good or for bad. Either they do it consciously or unconsciously but they tend to reflect that - not always good.
Suzanne Hanifin: Absolutely. I’m going to pick apart a couple of things you brought up because I think this is really interesting, and I’ll put it in our perspective. You mentioned that “you didn’t grow up in this industry” .. and that is such an interesting way of thinking - from my perspective, because I always feel like if you only hire people from within your industry how are new ideas, innovation – all of that comes from that. In our world we sometimes compete with industry specific recruiters who have a list of the same people, and I don’t understand that.
Michael Beck: I get it when you are at lower levels of workers and technicians to be from the industry so they are familiar with what happens there, but as you move up the ranks leadership is about leadership it's not about technology and I’ll often ask folks, especially those in in analytical fields, what is more valuable technical knowledge or people's skills as a leader. Historically the people that tend to be analytical aren't the greatest leaders and what happens in many companies is that when people are really good at what they do, the work that they do, they get promoted into leadership roles and they don't understand that skill set. The first half of my career I did analytical things.. engineering and finance etcetera and now I work with people and so I refer to myself as a recovering analytical. I say that because It will help folks that haven't polished that interpersonal skill set and help them then shift and understand that skill set.
Suzanne Hanifin: Absolutely. I always find that so fascinating. We could have a podcast on that topic alone, with industries that haven’t changed in 20 years that need to change. And helping those learn those interpersonal skills, which I think is a learnable trait. Absolutely, and the other thing you said is that people tend to emulate their management or leadership experience - that they've experienced it the past. But I think it's our failings and our skinned knees that we learn more from then are successes.
Michael Beck: That’s very true. But you have to recognize it as a failing. Some people think, "Oh, this is the way it is when you're a leader," when that’s not true at all. Honestly, early in my career, I was a poor leader. I admit it. I wrote that in my book. Over the years, as I worked for poor leaders, I realized what I was doing wrong.
Suzanne Hanifin: and helping to learn those interpersonal skills, which is a learnable trait. Absolutely.
Michael Beck: Absolutely. It is developmental. That’s why, and this may not sit well with everybody, but I actually don’t believe in leadership training. You can’t read a book and suddenly be a better leader. It’s developmental because those interpersonal skills take time to develop, nurture, and refine. When learning how to use Excel, you can read a book and become good at it.
Suzanne Hanifin: Absolutely. And then, what a perfect segue. We all bring these values and traits into our day-to-day lives. What values do you personally hold that you operationalize daily? What’s important to you, whether that’s how you pick a client, like for us we have very clear requirements on what we look for in a client. What do you look for?
Michael Beck: That’s a good question. I don’t take every client. Early on in this profession, I learned that there’s a big difference between the people that need help and the people that want help. You can only work with the people who want it. I’ve found that better leaders or better clients are those who know they’re good at some things but are willing to acknowledge, "I’m not great at this, and I want to be better at it." They need to be a bit open-minded about what they need and have a certain degree of self-confidence. Folks who lack self-confidence will pretend they’re good at everything when they’re not, and it doesn’t work. I’ve often observed that, over all the years, I’ve never met an executive who thought they were a poor leader.
Suzanne Hanifin: Oh, that’s an interesting perspective. Say that again.
Michael Beck: I’ve never met an executive who thought they were a poor leader. They all think they’re at least good at what they do, and maybe they’ll say, "Well, everyone can improve," but I’ve met some terrible leaders who just felt they were good. Other people either didn’t understand them or didn’t know them well enough. It’s very interesting that people—rather than just leaders or executives—are not very good at self-assessment. I’ve said to leaders, "It doesn’t really matter what you think about your abilities; it matters what everyone else around you thinks about your abilities." So, we often do assessments because of that.
Suzanne Hanifin: Absolutely. And because you work with organizations of all sizes and across multiple industries, what advice do you typically give a CEO to become a better leader?
Michael Beck: Well, everybody's different. Obviously, you know, there's not a curriculum per say, but I tend to work with clients in certain areas. They keep reoccurring, better interpersonal skills, it helps to have a sounding board for strategic thinking and getting outside perspective. To your point earlier, the idea of having someone outside of the industry allows you to bring better perspectives and gets them to think of it differently. And so, whether it's strategy development or it's how they do what they do. Recently I even helped a CEO reorganize their organization because it was, you know, called fractured. It just wasn't working well. And so you need to help them take a step back and see it from a different perspective.
Suzanne Hanifin: Absolutely. And then again, it's picking those clients, as you say. Is (that) open mindedness. My number one is humility. That people don't know everything and recognize they don't know everything.
Michael Beck: Well, I mean, I one of the reasons I love the work that you and your firm does is because you give as much credence to personality and cultural fit as you do the technical knowledge and industry experience. I think that's critical.
Suzanne Hanifin: Oh, absolutely. I mean you're preaching - you know you're speaking my love language on that one. Because there is not alignment between those goals and values. And you brought it up earlier, technical skills are learned. It's, you know, and especially at the leadership level, it is critical. I talked to somebody today who is saying if there's a fracture at the leadership level, it becomes a chasm as you move down.
Michael Beck: Oh, absolutely. That's a good perspective on it. People talk about the importance of culture. And I've made the observation that some people or many people think that culture are the values and the behaviors the organization aspires to. But that's not true. Culture are the values and behaviors the company tolerates. And when the leaders tolerate bad behavior, that becomes the culture.
Suzanne Hanifin: We always say what is acceptable and what's not …and that's good or bad you know and is the toleration of behavior.
Michael Beck: So you know you had asked me earlier things that I help executives improve here in areas and there are a number of things that I really feel strongly about to help them get the best out of the their folks. Can I share those with you?
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, please.
Michael Beck: One is the idea of treating people like people instead of like things and the dynamic is very different and it involves empathy. And I'm not talking about accepting mediocrity or non-accountability, got nothing to do with that. But treating a person like a person goes a long way in building trust and respect.
Another one is treating adults like adults instead of like children. And you know, the classic example of that is micromanaging. It's like professionals want to do a good job. You don't need to ride them. You don't need to make sure they're doing it. They want to. And so to really elevate our leaders of effectiveness, help them treat adults and professionals like adults and professionals and that goes a long way.
The third one is actually, well I alluded to it is, earning trust and respect. And the example, I give of the importance of that is, let's say there are two leaders, and one is trusted and respected and the other one not so much. And they both make the same mistake. What do they say about the one who's trusted and respected? They go, oh, well, you know, everyone makes mistakes and at least he or she owns up to it and they're correcting it. But what do they say about the other leader who made the same mistake? They go, there it is again, the guy doesn't know what he's doing. You know, he's just a screw-up, right. And so it really is very impactful, earning trust and respect.
And then the last one that I often help folks with, it has to do with appreciation. And there's a difference between appreciation and recognition, right? Typically, we recognize people for their achievements. You know there's bonus or an award or some big deal made of it but appreciation is often given for effort. It's often given privately and but it's also given sincerely, like popping your head into an office to say hey “I really appreciate you working over the weekend and finishing that project” that means something much more than a bonus check.
Suzanne Hanifin: Oh absolutely. And it really fits with that retention, and you know people spend a lot of money and time and effort finding good leaders and if they are not treated well with respect both ways or there there's that misalignment that we were talking about, it doesn't work. So Michael when you've hired and worked with CEOs hiring, what are the key characteristics that you look for?
Michael Beck: It's an interesting one. Typically, we're not worried about their technical expertise and Industry experience that's self-evident it's on the resume right. It's those other things about.. part of it is thinking strategically and part of it is their personality and fit and again that's why I like leaning on you all because it's a big deal and I've known companies that have hired …I can tell you another story about a client with the CEO hired a COO and they decided they didn't need to bother discussing it with me. They went through four of them and the last one was so bad that they actually had to call me in, and I had to travel to another state, so I could interview employees to confirm the stories were that bad. And they were.
And so it's personality, it's integrity. I mean, these aren't all things that you can sit and ask somebody about. You can't ask someone if they have integrity. So, part of the whole hiring process is the art of uncovering that. But that personality and cultural fit .. their character is a big deal.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah. So this example you gave of this organization of CEO going through, if I could say that, four COOs, was it that the CEO wasn't setting expectations right or hiring the right person. I mean what was the issue?
Michael Beck: The CEO, the CEO and her husband, who's also involved in the organization decided they knew what they needed, and they kept hiring for industry experience without regard to anything else. And even though they did it and they made the mistake, and I was coaching the CEO the whole time, but they didn't tell me they were doing this. Then I found out, Oh yeah, we just hired somebody, and they did it the second time, and they did it the third time. It's like guys what are you doing? But between the husband and wife team, they felt they were the experts and they knew what they were doing. It was their company. Like, OK, yeah.
Suzanne Hanifin: So again, it kind of circles back to what we were saying at the beginning about industry specific. And like I said, we could probably take an entire podcast, 2 hours, 3 hours just on that.
Michael Beck: and the fact that people have blind spots, they can't see what they're missing. They need someone from the outside to point things out.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, absolutely. This podcast is about Hiring for Good. And so I need to ask you, Michael, what does Hiring for Good mean to you?
Michael Beck: Yeah, I actually think it for me it has a couple of meetings. One is hiring for the good of everybody, hiring for the good of the individual being hired. One is for the good of the organization and the people within the organization. And of course, the other side of that is hiring for good, meaning hiring permanently. It's not hiring for the time being or hope this person works out. You want to hire somebody who's a fantastic fit and they stay there, they grow with the company. So those are the things it means to me.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, absolutely. So I do have one more question for you. And if looking back, what advice would you give your 20-year-old self?
Michael Beck: Yeah, that's an interesting question. I hadn't ever thought of that. Probably wouldn't have listened as my 20-year-old self. You know, at 20 years of age, we're pretty young and pretty inexperienced, and I think that this has been a thing for me. I think it's unrealistic to expect people of that age to know what they want to do for the rest of their life. And I think exploring the world and, by that I mean, what it is they really have passion about. I mean one of the things I went from.. I've had many, many, many different careers and you know some of them, and you don't have time to go through it all. But at one point I decided, you know what? I'm good at everything, I just don't enjoy any of it really. And so, I decided what it was that I was passionate about and it was this whole leadership and making a difference and even now 20 plus years later, I'm still jazzed and energized by it. I love what I do. Clients love it .. for a 20-year-old to make a decision for the direction of the rest of their life cause, I've met plenty of folks, who go I'm unhappy, but this is all I've ever done. So I would say it's OK to explore and try different things early on.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, it's been so fascinating that most CEOs that we've been talking to in our podcast, they didn't have a straight line. Their career, and their lives, have taken them down different roads, over mountains, sometimes through rivers. And it's that culmination of all those experiences that really make them a good leader.
Michael Beck: Yeah. And I think along with that, it is this passion aspect of it, where just because you're good at something doesn't mean you'll enjoy it. And the only way to really be successful is to really love what you're doing. And so all these folks you've spoken to who've taken a winding road - all of a sudden the light comes on and go, you know what, I want to do what I'm passionate about. And then they're rock stars.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, I think that's the lesson here, boy. Michael, I tell you, this is flown by and I cannot thank you enough. So if you want to reach Michael, all of his contact information is below. And all I can say is as a CEO executive strategist is Thank you.
Michael Beck: My pleasure. I enjoyed our chat today.