A Conversation with: Kim Kelleher
This episode features a conversation with Kim Kelleher, owner of Raw Books. Kim’s real focus - and passion - is creating a workplace for US-based women that is 100% virtual,
work-on-your-own-time and has meaningful, fulfilling work in a very collaborative and supportive environment. The firm chose to employ a team model with clients where 2-3 team members are assigned: 1-2 doing the detailed work and a Client Manager who oversees the client experience from a holistic point of view. Kim believes that women who appreciate this virtual, collaborative workplace model, and are drawn to the firm’s core values, will really enjoy the work - and that will naturally bring about an outstanding client experience because the team members really want to work here and support the firm’s mission!
Kim’s Contact Information: Kim@rawbookspdx.com | 503-807-0305 | www.rawbookspdx.com
“I do feel like the idea of not having to have all the answers. There are so many times I felt like I had to have the right answers and that is not true. And the second part of it is you learn more from having the wrong answers and experiencing that or doing something that did not work. You learn so much more from that than you do from something that went well. You will not remember those times where things went well. You will some, but you remember those times and you hopefully will really learn from it”
Transcript:
Suzanne Hanifin: Hi, this is Suzanne Hanifin with Acumen Executive Search, and this is the Hiring for Good podcast, which is best practices of leadership. I am here today with the lovely Kim Kelleher with Raw Bookkeeping, and I'm excited to have Kim with us today. Kim's background, just like how we've talked through a lot of different leaders, has not been a straight-line career; it has done a lot of turns. So welcome, Kim. I'm so glad you are here to join us.
Kimberly Kelleher: Suzanne, I'm honored to be here, and I hope you know that I'm one of your biggest fans of the podcast and I've listened to all the things. So, it's almost like life imitating art and that I've listened to about a million podcast episodes and I'm on one. Amazing!
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, it really is. And I tell you when Tanis, I have to give Tanis, my co-worker, all the credit. It was her idea to these…to start doing podcasts and every single one I have learned so much. And here, you know, I interview people for a living, and you know, it's amazing when you ask leaders…again the best practices, lessons learned, what nuggets of information come from that. And that's probably a great segue into you and your background because you started your career at Accenture. You know, and similar to me. I was on the Arthur Andersen side for the first year and then moved on to the Andersen Consulting side, which today is Accenture. And now you own your own business. So, kind of tell me about the journey and how you made that transition.
Kimberly Kelleher: Well, I guess I would say I seem to have had two careers. One that you referenced started back in, oh my gosh, 1989. But yeah, I joined Andersen Consulting in the day and I was in New York. The only place I wanted to be - New York City, and so ended up living there for 10 years and was on that track of, you know, being a consultant and then, uh, whatever the next thing was. And then, you know, Manager, associate, partner, and partner. I would say that I kind of figured out fairly quickly within the first five years that while I, you know, generally enjoyed the work and certainly found it challenging and all that, I was not destined for partner. I was not interested in selling work, and I just knew that that was not really what was going to draw me in. And to be honest, I saw what other people, you know, eventually I met my husband and then we were talking about getting married and we got married and then we were thinking about kids. When I saw what was happening for women in the firm and what you had to kind of go through, I was not interested. So, I really think, in a way, that when I got pregnant with our first child, I was like, you know what? This is a really graceful way to exit Corporate America. And I was relieved.
Suzanne Hanifin: Oh, trust me. We'll talk about formative periods in your life. I remember my first week was told if I believed I could become a partner, have a wife, and children to think again. And that was shocking. And I was raised thinking, of course, I can do it all. Yes, and why not? And to get that from, again, the first week on the job, you're like, is this really the choice you have to make? And so obviously, once again, being pregnant, you said this isn't the choice for me. So, keep telling us about it.
Kimberly Kelleher: Well, it's funny because I remember back in that day there were definitely, there were sort of two sides. You either were deciding to be a stay-at-home mom or you were deciding to be still in, you know, a really professional career. And it was a little bit of a divide of, you know, who's right here. And now looking back, it seems crazy. But it really felt like that. So I decided I was leaving it, and I was lucky enough to have a husband that had a job that we could do that. And we actually decided that we were not going to stay in the city, and so we didn't want anyone commuting. And so, we ended up deciding to go and move to Portland, Oregon. My family had just moved here, and we thought, oh, we're starting a family. Maybe being near family would be good because they had been in Tennessee. And so, we moved out here, and my husband got a job at Intel, and I became pregnant. And in five years, we had four kids. And I, you know, that had not necessarily been in the plan. But I had one, oh my God. So, I was very happy with the choice I'd made. And yet, at the same time, that's also like a third career and hard. So, while we were here, I ended up getting pretty involved in some school things. And that's, it's funny because that's when the community more took over. And we then ended up moving back to the East Coast because, you know, someone missed investment banking. And we ended up back in, you know, the area that I thought we were leaving. And now we live in New Jersey. And now he's commuting, all the things that we said wouldn't happen. But I'm at home with four, you know, very young kids. And that's really, I think, when I got involved in the schools, and that's when I started raising my hands for treasurer. And nobody raises their hands for that typically. So, I think that's what sort of started the setup for what was to come down the road.
Suzanne Hanifin: And isn't that four kids? And, you know, sometimes people don't understand or appreciate. I mean, I have three kids: they're not within five years. That's crazy. But, you know, that is work. It's not, and it's probably the most thankless job many people take on. And again, in my situation, I was pretty lucky. My husband was the at-home dad for five years with our oldest. And again, very unique challenges as a woman because people would kind of question then why aren't I the one being at home.
Kimberly Kelleher: Not only that, I recently had a conversation with my husband about, we talk a lot now about the past and about, oh, isn't it interesting how certain things were just sort of assumed? And he realized and was able to state that, hey, had he been the one that was being asked to stay home with kids, that, uh, no, he wouldn't have done it. So it really is way undervalued. You can lose your mind a lot of days. You're used to functioning in a very high professional, you know, very smart people around, and now you've got people who do not listen to you, and they are very small and they are running all over the place. And yeah, it's crazy.
Suzanne Hanifin: I know as teenagers, I don't think my kids listen to me at all. It's funny. And the disrespect, I would never get that from my coworkers, my clients, my..you know, no way would I put up with that. Yeah, so 14 years ago, you decided to launch your bookkeeping services while your kids were still fairly young.`
Kimberly Kelleher: Yeah, so that was also.I had then been treasurer in some organization and learned QuickBooks where a friend asked me, hey, would you be able to do my husband's books who had just left Intel and they're needing a bookkeeper. And I said I guess so. So I did. And I found that I enjoyed it. And then we ended up…I had more people in the community find out what I was doing and asking. And so I never did any marketing, but suddenly I kind of ended up with as much work as I could handle with four kids and navigating all of that. So that was in 2010. And then it was 2018 where I must have had another client come and I was kind of like, I can't do any more. What am I doing? Like, it's kind of lonely. So, there you are. I could actually, I guess some of the kids may have been in school at that point, but you get to the end of the day and, oh, maybe they've gone to bed, and you could actually relax. And now I'm like, no, I'm doing this bookkeeping thing. So, it was a little counterintuitive. And yet it was a really good mind thing. And it was, you know, in terms of your mind, and it was also mine. And nothing else in the house is yours as a mom. It's like for everybody else. And so this was a space where I was able to, I think, have something that was mine. And for heaven's sakes, I was getting paid something for it. Like, that was a blast from the past. So, it was then that I thought, what am I going to do? And I realized at that point in 2018 that if I had somebody with me on this kind of journey, that would be really great. And then it occurred to me, what about all the women who have done the same thing as me, left behind corporate America or whatever they were doing, and now they're trying to reenter the workforce? And so that's when I went, well, that would be good. And that's when the first person joined me. She is still with me today, and her oldest has just graduated high school. So now we know all of our milestones. It's been great. And it was in 2018 that I realized what a great decision that was because that's when I got diagnosed with breast cancer and went through treatment. And I brought on another person in the community in 2019, and that is when it really solidified for me. Wow, having a group here that is amazing, not just for me but for the clients because if something takes you out and you're the only person there, they're stuck. So that is kind of how that whole, you know, first part and now here was like the second chapter opening up within the business.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, and it's a very similar journey that I went through with Acumen. Max was nine days old when a client called me and said, hey, will you do some recruiting for me? And I thought, I have a nine-day-old baby. And if people would have saw me on the phone talking to people, I was, you know, 90% of the time breastfeeding a child while I was on the phone. But I think it was..Max was three months when I brought on my first person because you can't do it alone and give that service, give that attention. And for you, again, having four young kids still at home, having breast cancer, trying to be as professional as you can, and juggling everything, you're a hero, Kim.
Kimberly Kelleher: I don't know about that, but it's funny. I actually look back and I go, why didn't I binge Netflix constantly during that? My gosh. But I was like, no, I'm going to keep working. And it was really important to me that I had people who had trusted me with their financial information, with all this. And I really did feel like, well, I'm going to try my best. And it all, it really worked out. And it was so great having people in it. My husband is great. He is fantastic for being supportive and all those things, but he's not in the business with me. And so, they were. And that it was, you know, something I'll never forget.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah. And now you've also hit another pinnacle moment. You had your youngest just finished her freshman year of college. You're looking at merging your business with a similar business. Walk us through that thought process.
Kimberly Kelleher: You know, I feel like sometimes the universe just brings things, right? And so, it was in 2022 that I realized that I had two people with me, but I've never been someone who really enjoys being “I’m in charge, you go do this, you go do that”. You know, it's just not me. I actually really like having other people make collaborative decisions because I feel like if we can all come together on something that's got to be the best one. I may think mine was the best, but then you hear others, like, oh no, no, no, this is much better. So, when I realized this, I started thinking about, what about partnership? And in the span of 2023…I guess actually if we go back to the end of 2022, that was the first time that I went to a conference. I may have gone to conferences back in round one of career, but I don't even remember them. And so now I go to this thing called QuickBooks Connect, and I was blown away with how much there was to know and I just suddenly went “pft”. So, I come back, and then in 2023, we end up having a client's daughter approach me. Her sister-in-law approached me about working with us. And then I don't, like, I did not solicit really any, I guess we were maybe looking for people, but it just, the word went out. And I think we had seven people join us from February to October, November. So now we're trying to build everything for this. And for many people, it was a situation where they really needed this 100% virtual work, work on your own time, a situation where it's a workplace you can work in but it fits around whatever personal constraints you have. And so when we started really doing that, that's when I went, this is it. This is..I never had this feeling about the prior career because that was all like, yeah, I see what's coming. That's not this. This was like, oh my gosh, where could this go? And then I ended up having someone in my local community who she owns a firm as well, and we talked, and it finally was like, yeah, I think we should do this. So we are in the midst of partnering together with the firm.
Suzanne Hanifin: Wow. And so today you have eight employees…ni..how many?
Kimberly Kelleher: No, we’ve got someone going out on maternity leave, which we’re like celebrating. Yeah, you want to come back, you don't want to come back, it's fine. We'll make it all work. So we have that. I think that we've got between her team and my team, 13 people. Not employees. So we have all contractors, and they are part-time. But I think that we are kind of moving this direction where, especially as we bring on more clients, we may have people having more hours. And that's where I'm excited about having opportunities for these women that have different things happen. The one who's been with me the longest, her daughter is graduating, she has another daughter coming through, and then she's going to have a lot more time on her hands. So how great that she's got the flexibility to do whatever she wants now with not many hours but then be able to take on more and, you know, do amazing stuff for us.
Suzanne Hanifin: No, I love it. And again, getting to this point to where you are looking to grow and expand, which you really weren't for the first number of years. It was all word of mouth, let's kind of grow organically. Whoever needs help, let me help them. And now you've kind of, it's a whole different mindset. So again, what are some of the learnings? Your early stage on this partnership, but what are you learning?
Kimberly Kelleher: So, the first thing I learned is that anyone that you tell you're partnering, they say don't do it. I mean, literally. And they're like, or there better be a majority partner. And I'm like, well, no, actually we're doing it 50/50. So, I'm really now out to just trying to beat the odds. But I would say that what it has come to light over the past year..I started reading books… like I had never done. I didn't have an MBA. I didn't go back for school. I was done after college, didn't have any interest in that. And suddenly I could not read enough, could not listen to enough podcasts about how are people doing this. I learned the phrase you need to work on the business, not in the business. And then one day it clicked, and I went, oh my God, I've got to get out of client work. So, there's all this going on. I mean, it's funny, my husband's like, wow, I'm like watching you get kind of this custom MBA over here. And, you know, I was like, yeah, but I'm choosing it and it's at a time when it makes sense to me. It never would have made sense to me before now. So, the other thing I realized, all the reading were by men. And when I started listening to all these well-known podcasts, the accounting influencers, which people will laugh, and it is true, like there are names out there who are truly the influencers in the, you know, community. So anyway, one of them started also an online community, and I decided against my impostor syndrome mind, oh my gosh, I shouldn't be in this thing, but I'm gonna try it. So, all you're hearing through so much of podcasts, books, and, you know, there are a lot of men, but there are some women in these groups as well. And you're hearing, oh, you really want to have, oh my gosh, the..a unicorn business, you know, where there's, it's all privately held money, but they get a billion dollars and it's like grown and, you know, all this. So, there's that. There's the if you're not growing, you're dying. I've heard that phrase for so many years from my husband, and I go, how can that be true? How can you not just have a business that is happy where it is? And so my point in all of this is that when I went into sessions in this group and started noticing who's online, and I'd see women there, and sometimes they would make comments, and I'd be like, whoa, that I get that. That I really feel. And I started messaging them in this community, hey, would you ever want to have coffee virtually and whatever? And the more I started talking to women, I realized, okay, I'm not alone. And they too were like, I'm not looking for this growth that is going like this. I'm not looking to become $10 million...I want something that works for me, it works for our team. You know, it was about different things. And then you find a podcast like Build to Enough, is the name of it, by Kela Hill-Treway, and I was, this just can't, somebody gets it. So I guess I'd say that that has like, you got to find what really speaks to you. And it took me, you know, 55 years to find it. I mean, who knew?
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, and it’s..and it's funny you mentioned a couple of things about being a woman business owner. And it's funny because I have a great relationship with my husband and I'll say something and I look at him sometimes going really don't get it, you know? And because, you know, we're taught these are the parameters and these are the steps and you need to go from step one to step two to step three and like you said continue to grow or, you know, and sometimes that's not right, you know? It's growth just for the sake of growing versus smart business, what..what, you know, is right for you. So, let's let’s pretend you have a crystal ball. What does the next 3 to 5 years look like for you?
Kimberly Kelleher: I think what I would say is we actually do want to grow. There is a point, you know, it would be fun to and I think manageable if we were to hit like a million dollars gross revenue. Okay, it's just this round number and if we did that it would feel very meaningful. And I know it may be small to a lot of people and yet it's not. That's a big number. So I see us really being out of the work so that as partners we have figured out what I am focused on, what she is focused on in the business and that really the thing that would be the best is that when you have found this team that is working with you and you really jive together right and it is truly collaborative and like I look at our core values that we made and I am so excited about them for people that fit into this and they’re really drawn in by it, I just feel like then you let go as a partner, which is hard to do. It's hard, but you let go and they are probably going to do a better job than you ever could have done if you would have just let it go. So that is where I hope to be, where then everyone is getting to work the amount that they want and, you know, including the partners. This should not be like a death march. This should be fun. I say to my husband all the time, this should literally be the most fun I'm having because I'm making it all up. I mean, who, you know, not everybody gets to do that. So I’m not sure I fully answered your question, but...
Suzanne Hanifin: No, you truly did. And it's funny you mention these core values because I'd like to talk about that because there are formative experiences through our lives that make us who we are and I think women in part, well I think everyone, but women in particular take these core values and they are expressed in everyday life. And so, you mentioned collaboration. What other core values do you believe in that represent you and also represent your company, and how are you operationalizing those?
Kimberly Kelleher: So the collaboration is huge, as you said. I would say, and we have seven and that's probably too many, but they’re all really important. We have one that says, “Live authentically, genuinely, and with trust,” and I would say that I am the type of person who when I feel a certain way. I cannot tamp it down. I have to communicate it. I cannot be false. It is just something in me. I realized this back in the Anderson Consulting days when I got sent to a course in St. Charles to Stephen Covey’s Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I'm telling you that book, I got the planner, I had the little post-it notes that you move with the list, you know, all of this. And I truly believed he talked about being principle-centered and I came up with what are those things that I felt were really innate to me. And there was sort of this, you have to be honest, you have to be kind of transparent. I just don’t hold back on things and if I'm feeling something I almost can’t talk to you or look at you because if I’m not telling you what I’m thinking because it just feels like being dishonest. So finally, like, I’m really sorry I have to tell you this.
Suzanne Hanifin: No, I love it. And it's so funny, I remember the planner. I had a brown planner and I carried that around. Now we have software that, you know, again our CRM, you move from one, but you do our project management, doop, doop, doop, you move it all the way around. Isn’t that funny? I think we’re aging ourselves.
Kimberly Kelleher: I know, but I like the mind, you know what, forget the age thing. Every year I am here it is great. So, I actually celebrate every birthday. I don’t mind telling people how old I am because I'm like, hey, how fantastic to be here.
Suzanne Hanifin: Absolutely, absolutely. I’ll throw down an amen for that one. I know, I think, again, this was a big year for both of us. I think we turned the Double Nickel, both of us did, so that was... I have to say, I am a big birthday celebration person too and I left and celebrated mine in Thailand. Right, so yeah, it's a big, big deal.
So, you know, this podcast is called Hiring for Good. What does hiring for good mean for you?
Kimberly Kelleher: So, hiring for good, I have heard so many great answers from people that you have already interviewed. So I was trying to figure out, you know, really what does that mean for me and I feel like there is definitely some good in there of focusing on this particular group, women who often have been overlooked by other, being corporate, being whatever work that is really not engaging. And yet you have the ability but because of whatever is keeping you from being able to meet their demands, it keeps you from all the interesting work. So, we’re really, I feel like if we get the right people in here, this is going to be a place where people hopefully love to work. And so that’s going to be good for them because they actually, instead of waking up and being like, oh my God, work, it’s going to be more like, whoa, you know, what am I doing today? I’m going to get this project done or I’m going to get that file reconciled, whatever it is. And that is, I hope, going to produce even better work for clients than most other places because people here, I think, I’m hoping are going to be really jazzed up to be here and do a great job. So that’s what comes to mind for me first.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, I love it. And so, you know, again, you've recreated yourself multiple times. You know, again, working for Accenture is not a small task and then being an at-home mom, then being an entrepreneur, now you’re joining another firm. What advice would you give somebody who’s kind of at that crossroads of not sure what to do?
Kimberly Kelleher: I mean, I guess I would say, I mean, it's funny because I found passion in my kids. Like, that was different than any work situation, right? And that's where I was like, I knew it was right for me to stay home most days, at least, but it was the right thing for me. And then this has been really just like bloom, that’s kind of passionate in me about that. I think if people can find that in a way, I, again, have been very, very lucky that I have a spouse who has made a great living where I did not have to work. And that is a really great position to be in. Not everybody has it, but I don’t think that money should drive everything either. And for a lot of people, and I know coming out of school, I was like, I’m going with the place that gives me the highest dollars and that’s going to be great. And, you know, I now know, wow, no. So, I think as much as possible sort of finding what speaks to you and doing that, that would be one. And then I have loved hearing about people having these paths that are completely not linear. And by the way, I believe that you going off and doing things that seem completely separate from one another gives you such a richer well of stuff to draw on for whatever it is that you’re going to be doing. So that while it seems not the right thing at the time, can so pay off later as you’re mentioning to someone, oh yes, well I was in Thailand for this period of time or whatever and they’re like, wait, what? And suddenly there’s this richness to the conversation, to them understanding your experience so much differently and the fact that you didn’t come straight down that corporate path starts to look pretty good, I think.
Suzanne Hanifin: Well, and you're speaking my language because I truly do believe that diversity of experiences makes you a better person. And we talk to organizations all the time that say, no, no, no, we want somebody from our industry, and we really push back a lot, saying you get more ideas, you know, and you stop the groupthink. And we've seen it in different industries that, you know, 10 years go by, and you go, oh look, there’s been no innovation. Maybe it’s because everybody’s doing the same thinking, you know? So, I agree with you. I agree with that strongly.
So my last question, and this is going to be interesting, what piece of advice would you have today that you would give your 20-year-old self?
Kimberly Kelleher: You know, I have to say, I really did have a good time living in New York, so I couldn’t say, oh no, don’t go, follow that dream. Good question, Suzanne. I do feel like the idea of not having to have all the answers. There are so many times I felt like I had to have the right answers and that is not true. And the second part of it is you learn more from having the wrong answers and experiencing that or doing something that did not work. You learn so much more from that than you do from something that went well. You will not remember those times where things went well. You will some, but you remember those times and you hopefully will really learn from it. So I think maybe being bolder about making choices or decisions where I played it safe a lot. And you can't go back. You can't go back in time and your 20s would really be the time to go and travel if you want. I honestly really applaud my oldest son. He graduated from college and he and some friends said, we are going to Spain, we are going to Madrid, and we are going to live and teach English over there. And I'm kind of like, you know, well where’s that leading? But that's to speak of there's one way and this is how you do it. So go and take advantage of what you can, especially before maybe you’re married, have kids because then that’s a lot harder. But yeah, really broaden your horizon and be bold in what you decide to do.
Suzanne Hanifin: I love that. Well, Kim, on that note, I tell you, I have learned a lot once again and I just want to say thank you. And so, Kim’s information will be at the end. She is growing. If you need a great bookkeeping company, reach out to Kim. And any other things that you’d just like to add and follow up on before?
Kimberly Kelleher: Yeah, well listen, I do want to say one last thing because there was in your first interview that you did on the podcast, you had Stan Hanks, remember? And he had in there, and I’m just trying to find the exact quote that he did because, wow, it spoke to me. And it was about how basically his role as an executive was to move obstacles out of the way of his team members. And I thought how fabulous it is that, that he is putting the other people first, and doing whatever to support them. And I was like, that speaks to me. So I have to say.
Suzanne Hanifin: Yeah, no, I tell you, you know it’s funny. You talk about learning and how you learn. So, I look at the first couple of the podcasts and I want to redo them because I think we're so much better today. And, you know, it’s funny, but Stan is amazing, amazing person, so I’m glad you brought his up. So, everybody, rewatch Stan Hanks’s podcast. There’s a lot of good nuggets there.
Kimberly Kelleher: Go watch them all, go watch them all. And then watch how it’s gotten different and made the, you know, the quality or whatever, but it’s so, I think it’s so great just how it’s come along. So yeah.
Suzanne Hanifin: Ah, thank you, Kim. And thank you for your insights today. This has been wonderful. Again, Kim Kelleher of Raw Bookkeeping, and I love the name RAW, R-A-W. So, throwing that out there too. Again, you can get all of her contact information and reach out to her.
Thank you, Kim.
Kimberly Kelleher: Thank you, Suzanne.